1. IrvingSnodgrass - Nov. 7, 1998 - 7:02 AM PT
Welcome to the Fray's new Music, Arts and Literature thread! This is the place to discuss anything topic concerning classical and popular music, the visual and performing arts, and literature. Check out the Music Club, the Book Club, or the latest Art article in Slate and carry on!
2. haynes - Nov. 7, 1998 - 7:27 AM PT
Irv:
Congratulations on your efforts and success in the Fray. Here is yet another welcome thread subject. Bravo.
It's a fitting topic for me today since my thoughts are on tonight's concert, where I'm playing clarinet with our local symphony orchestra. It will be mostly French music (Debussy's Petite Suite; Ravel: several pieces) and a number of Gershwin favorites, including An American in Paris. I can't wait. Cheers!
3. BobaFett - Nov. 7, 1998 - 11:52 AM PT
In honor of "Batman" creator Bob Kane (who died yesterday), two trivia questions:
1) In Batman's first adventures, what city was his base of operations?
2) In Batman's first adventures, what was the deadliest weapon he carried?
4. rdbrewer - Nov. 7, 1998 - 12:03 PM PT
Irv, "anything topic"?
5. CoralReef - Nov. 7, 1998 - 12:14 PM PT
Wexxford won't be happy: Barnes and Noble just bought the top book wholesaler, the one that supplies Amazon.com among others.
6. envision - Nov. 8, 1998 - 1:54 PM PT
I spent a lot of time putting together a list of my top-25 Bob Dylan songs for the list thread. Little did I know that within 6 hours of having inserted the information, that thread would RIP and disappear.
1. Like a Rolling Stone
2. Visions of Johanna
3. I'll Be Your Baby Tonight
4. All I Really Want To Do
5. I Shall Be Released
6. Simple Twist of Fate
7. Forever Young
8. Tonight I'll Be Staying Here With You
9. Neighborhood Bully
10. True Love Tends To Forget
11. Idiot Wind
12. I Believe in You
13. Sara
14. I Want You
15. Man in the Long Black Coat
16. Song To Woody
17. You Ain't Going Nowhere
18. One Too Many Mornings
19. All Along the WatchTower
20. Hurricane
21. Shooting Star
22. Desolation Row
23. Political World
24. One More Cup of Coffee
25. Gotta Serve Somebody
7. KurtMondaugen - Nov. 8, 1998 - 4:11 PM PT
I somehow got roped into going to see the Seattle performance of John Zorn's Masada quartet the other night. Masada is a game attempt at fusing Ornette Coleman's harmelodic improv theory with traditional klezmer music, but I've found the recordings of the group I've heard to be distinctly lacking (although I have enjoyed Zorn's Bar Khoba extension project, which delivers classical chamber arrangements of Masada numbers). The performance was the second sold-out set of the evening, and did nothing to widen my impression of the records. All the musicians (except Zorn who still seems to insist that blowing Ab through his alto constitutes technical prowess) were quite accomplished, especially Dave Douglas on trumpet and Joey Barron on percussion, but the set as a whole was a thoroughly rote and lifeless affair, containing almost nothing truly spontaneous or organic. Fake class for hipsters. Dull, dull, dull.
8. BobaFett - Nov. 8, 1998 - 8:17 PM PT
Batman answers:
Since nobody's rushing to answer the Batman trivia questions, I'll give 'em now.
Batman was originally set in NYC. Gotham City was invented later.
Batman originally carried a gun. The "code against killing" stuff was invented later too.
9. envision - Nov. 8, 1998 - 8:25 PM PT
Boba--Thanks for giving us the answers. Being a New Yorker, I should have known that "the big apple" is also called Gotham (by some).
I loved Batman comics as a kid. I was particularly impressed by Bruce's house and Batcave. He not only had the cave for the great car but also for a boat with access to water. Being from Harrison, NY, I thought he might have lived in one of those big mansions in Rye, NY, along Long Island Sound.
10. BobaFett - Nov. 8, 1998 - 8:28 PM PT
envy:
I thought he was pretty cool when he was carrying the gun around. He had an automatic in an exposed shoulder holster. If you think a big dude dressed as a bat is scary, a big dude dressed as a bat carrying a .45 is even scarrier.
11. wexxford1 - Nov. 9, 1998 - 5:58 AM PT
The no-holds PR campaign to make a household name out of this awful opera woman, Cecilia Bartoli, is in overdrive.The Limey PR fella, Jonathan Miller, came to New York to hype up "The Marriage of Figaro"and maybe sell a few tickets .Whaddya know,everything stops on stage while Bartoli warbles a few songs not in the score.Well, why not.If you can make that little cockney Mick Jagger a star, why not a Cecilia Bartoli ? You guys like all this corporate PR hyping second rate stuff in the music racket?
12. wexxford1 - Nov. 9, 1998 - 6:10 AM PT
CoralReef. Yew got it sonny. I'm unhappy that corporate PR destroyed the book bidniz.Because when Madison Avenue touches everything, from the stock price to the nbest selling list we are all losers .Example ; a slight magazine piece on the bubbas of Atlanta by Tom Wolfe is bl9own into a 742-page of tripe to make it fat enough for another best seller . Best seller before tht book was published , of course.Printing: 1.5 million copies . On the old railroad siding in North Dakota, tons of copies of "A Man In Full" will gather mold while the PR hucketers engineer reviews like the blow job signed by " Michael Lewis " on the front page of the New York Times Book Review .
I dipped into this Tom Wolfe job to find it is the Georgia version of the Wally Lamb "best-seller", "I Know This Much Is True ." At least the Lamd Book lists the 50 people involved in producing the connecticut 896-page door stopper .The plain people of Amurrica ,of course, are getting Tom Wolfe plain, with breakfast dinner and megamacs.The arts reinvented by Madison Avenue? Pure schlock for the plain people of Amurrica .And well they deserve it .
13. wexxford1 - Nov. 9, 1998 - 6:16 AM PT
Hey, Kurt . This klazmer thing used to be called "busking" on the street.Great for unemployed musicians .Now even James Levine, the Met conductor with the Hollywood hair,is getting into the klezmer act. What is it with you guys .Madison Avenue says "Klezmer " and you people bite ! When Clinton leaves washington, will he get into the klezmer thing, too?
14. envision - Nov. 9, 1998 - 6:20 AM PT
Wexxford: I don't know anything about Celilia Bartoli but you're *really* wrong about "that little cockney", Mick Jagger.
I saw the Rolling Stones in concert in 1965, sometime in the late-70s, and in 1997.
Jagger is a genuine star with obvious staying power. If you're that wrong about his ability, I don't know about your judgment on Miss Bartoli.
15. trouserPilot - Nov. 9, 1998 - 7:21 AM PT
I don't know much about opera, but I *love* her olive oil.
16. philistine - Nov. 9, 1998 - 9:09 AM PT
wexxford -
I am rapidly beginning to wonder if you have any understanding of music created after 1800. Klezmer is a rich traditional music with roots going back to eastern european Jewish communities in the middle of the last century. It's good for dancing, great for lovers, and is acknowledged as having an influence on jazz from the time dixieland reached New York. It's currently gaining a little retro-chic in the same way that swing is doing, and that trendiness seems to be the only thing you have against it. Well, okay, but what does the fact you seem to be unable to tolerate somebody else enjoying themselves have to do with the quality of the music? Perhaps you'd also like to rail against country, bluegrass, blues, and R&B? Don't be shy now!
17. philistine - Nov. 9, 1998 - 9:16 AM PT
Kurt -
Sorry you didn't enjoy the Masada show - next time let me have your tickets. I've really enjoyed all the music I've heard by them. And anyway, I spent saturday evening watching a guy trying to use an electic guitar for classical Carnatic music. A sad thing, really. He seemed talented enough, but lacking the patience to really explore the nuances of the raag; the longest peice he played was a mere 10 minutes. Worse, the tone of a Fender strat through a Marshall amp is insufficiently complex and subtle to take the place of say, a Sarod or Santoor. The fact that he played with an echo effect only exacerbated things - Krsna but that was annoying!
Still, his accompaniasts, especially the old cat slapping the mridangam (sp?) were delightful.
Sadly, I opted to skip the Jimmy Smith show, citing financial considerations. Hope he lives and tours long enough for me to see him.
18. KurtMondaugen - Nov. 9, 1998 - 12:29 PM PT
phil:
What is it with you? Some PR hack sez carnatic and you bite?
19. ScotusAntonovich - Nov. 9, 1998 - 12:58 PM PT
In an effort to get away from listening to only Country & Western music, I've been picking up some "alternative" self-styled rock. I like a lot of what I hear but still can't stomach the screaming done by KISS, Meagadeath, etc., etc.
Some bands that I've found I like are:
"Cake: Prolonging The Music" (Tracks 3, 4, 6, and 8 especially)
"Green Day: Nimrod" (Tracks 2, 3, 17 and 18 are great!)
"Matchbox 20: Yourself or Someone Like You" (Pretty much the whole thing.)
I realize some of these may be flavors of the month, but can anyone suggest a band in a similar vein?
20. AzureNW - Nov. 9, 1998 - 1:39 PM PT
ScotusAntonovich -
Be sure to take a listen to some of the techno music that is becomming popular. Try the Chemical Brothers "Dig Your Own Hole" or Crystal Method "Keep Hope Alive."
21. marjoribanks - Nov. 9, 1998 - 2:29 PM PT
Phil,
Sounds like an, um, interesting concert. Carnatic music is well known for attempted "innovations" like the electric guitar and (I kid you not) several glasses filled with different levels of water.
Some innovations can be excellent. My favorite Carnatic-style artist is L . Subramaniam who uses a violin. However, the traditional music expressed by voice and by flute are also worth checking out. I also like the mrdangam, which can be more expressive and more complex than the tabla.
The sarod and santoor are not traditional Carnatic instruments, and are largely used in the Hindustani 'school'.
22. KurtMondaugen - Nov. 9, 1998 - 2:37 PM PT
re #19, #20:
Geez, where's wexxford when you really need him?
23. MrSocko - Nov. 9, 1998 - 2:44 PM PT
Huree Jamset Ram Singh says that he knows a lot about Bob Dylan. For him, and anybody else who's interested, here's A Deeply Trivial Dylan Quiz which only true fans will be able to answer.
1) Bob Dylan's first "electric" album was Highway 61 Revisited. What was the name of the first fully electric *song* that he recorded?
2) Sony Music has finally released the famous bootleg album, _Bob Dylan Live At The Royal Albert Hall_. Which British city did the concert in question take place in?
3) Which member's name from The Band is misspelled on _Planet Waves_?
4) Dylan won his second Grammy earlier this year. When did he win his first?
5) Long before he became a Christian, Dylan's songs featured any number of Biblical characters. Can you name the early career tunes where the following appeared: Cain & Abel; Delilah; St. John; The King Of The Philistines.
6) Dylan played harmonica on which Harry Belafonte song and sang on what Leonard Cohen album?
24. marjoribanks - Nov. 9, 1998 - 3:00 PM PT
Psocko,
What a silly set of questions.
1) Tambourine Man
2) Manchester
3) Who gives a shit
4) Real Dylan fans don't give a shit about the Grammys
5) If I thought about it for ten minutes I'm sure I'd come up with these, but it's too boring a question
6) I haven't listened to Harry Belafonte since I was forced to as a pre-teenager, and I quite dislike Leonard Cohen.
25. trouserPilot - Nov. 9, 1998 - 3:06 PM PT
3. Leavon Helm? Rich Dunko? Robbie Robinson? Richard Manatee?
26. marjoribanks - Nov. 9, 1998 - 3:07 PM PT
Psocko the desperate,
You are under the slightly retarded misconception that a "real fan" of music or a particular musician is interested in the arcana of liner notes, or the Corporate PR award shows (Wexxford! Wexxford!).
27. trouserPilot - Nov. 9, 1998 - 3:07 PM PT
4. In 1962, for a now-rare LP featuring his narration of "Peter and the Wolf."
28. marjoribanks - Nov. 9, 1998 - 3:09 PM PT
hahahahahaha
29. trouserPilot - Nov. 9, 1998 - 3:10 PM PT
6. "Alexander's Ragtime Band" (in a brief stint as a member of the Harmonicats) from the LP "Harry and the Harmonicats at the Hollywood Bowl"; Leonard Cohen "Remaindered"
30. MrSocko - Nov. 9, 1998 - 3:12 PM PT
Huree Jamset Ram Singh doesn't even know the title of Dylan's first electric song (although he got the British city right). Elsewhere he affects to be "bored" when pressed on his claims to knowing so much about Dylan.
31. marjoribanks - Nov. 9, 1998 - 3:23 PM PT
Psocko,
I suggest that you be stripped of any status as serious music fan because of your question about Bob Dylans other Grammy. How dare you ask that question of me, a Music Thread Insider.
32. Philistine - Nov. 9, 1998 - 3:25 PM PT
Marj -
Thank you for correcting my mistakes about the origin of the sitar and santoor. The description you gave of the other innovative carnatic instrument reminds me of some street-musicians I've seen (one in particular playing Vangelis' theme to "Chariots of Fire," yikes), and also what I've read about the glass harmonica invented by Benjamin Franklin. My statements about this Prasanna gent's electric guitar playing stand, with the additional observation that he probably made a mistake in keeping the frets on the neck.
Kurt -
"What is it with you? Some PR hack sez carnatic and you bite?"
No, no. Some PR hack sez carnatic and the guitarist bites. Read
closer!
re: Socko's #5, the King of the Philistines appears regularly in this thread.
33. Philistine - Nov. 9, 1998 - 5:26 PM PT
Kurt -
Blame wabbit. I am only her tool.
"A screamin' comes across de sky.
"Slap mah fro! It gots happened befo'e, but dere be nodin' t'compare it too now, so cut me some slack, Jack. It be too late. De Evacuashun still proceeds, but it be all deatre. Dere is no lights inside da damn cars. No light anywhere. Above him lift girders old as an iron queen, and glass somewhere far above dat would let da damn light uh day drough. Lop some boogie. But it's night. Man! He's afraid uh de way de glass gots'ta fall - soon - it gots'ta be some spectacle, dig dis: de fall uh de crystal palace. But comin' waaay down in total brotherout, widout one glint uh light, only great invisible
crashin'."
34. Philistine - Nov. 9, 1998 - 5:27 PM PT
"brotherout" hahahahah!
35. envision - Nov. 9, 1998 - 8:31 PM PT
MrSocko: I just checked by Planet Waves CD and, yes, Richard Manuel's name is spelled "Richard Manual."
The funny thing about that is the liner notes are in Bob Dylan's own handwriting.
36. MrSocko - Nov. 9, 1998 - 8:36 PM PT
envision: Unlike that other bounder you are a true fan. I'm honestly shocked at how little he knows about Bob Dylan.
37. envision - Nov. 9, 1998 - 9:01 PM PT
MrSocko: I just purchased a children's album dedicated to helping kids with AIDS and on it is Dylan singing "This Old Man."
It's a hoot!
38. trouserPilot - Nov. 10, 1998 - 7:41 AM PT
Philibus
Did you happen to catch Canibus on Conan last Friday night? I taped the show (not knowing who the guests were; just a habit) and have watched the Canibus segment, like, three or four times now. I really liked it. Um, who is this guy?
MrSchlocko
Some of us are proud of our Dylan ignorance.
39. philistine - Nov. 10, 1998 - 8:27 AM PT
trou -
Canibus has been labelled "Newcomer of the year" in most of the hiphop world. His first appearance (to my knowlege) was on the Lost Boyz "Beasts from the East," and shortly after that appeared on the soundtrack to "Rhyme and Reason" on the song "U-N-I Form" with Heltah Skeltah and Ras Kass. His vicious battle raps made him an underground celebrity in no time flat, resulting in a plethora of guest spots and mix-tape freestyles that culminated in a spot on LL Cool J's posse cut "4,3,2,1" in which he apparently dissed LL. The dis was returned in force by Cool J, setting off the most publicized "beef" of the last few years. I am pretty sure I included "4,3,2,1" on the "Vinyl Soulution" tape I sent you a few months back, but I haven't included any of the other records that figured into this beef, "2nd Round Knockout" by Canibus (featuring Mike Tyson) and "The Ripper Strikes Back" by Uncle L. 2nd Round KO is featured on Canibus' debut album, "Can-I-Bus?" but "The Ripper Strikes Back" is only available as a promo single.
Btw, the Online Hip Hop Lyric Archive now has a search feature, to aid in tracking down tricky things like b-sides, soundtrack only songs, and guest appearances.
Personally, I think Canibus is a bit of a one trick pony. Battlewise, there are probably only a few who can touch him, but once he starts trying to get some substance going, he generally falls on his face. For example, in "I Honor U" a song dedicated to his mother, he employs the same "I'm spitting in your face and there's not a damn thing you can do about it" delivery as ever. I do like the lyrics on that one, though.
40. trouserPilot - Nov. 10, 1998 - 8:53 AM PT
LL Cool Phil
Thanks for the gloss (and I'll have to go back and look for "4,3,2,1" on the tape). As usual, I paid absolutely no attention to the lyrics in the song I heard on "Conan"; I just really liked the music (live band and backup singers + a DJ-only break). Whether one or more tricks, I may be forced to pick up the album. (Actually, the idea of a song dedicated to his moms delivered as a fiery battle rant sounds pretty fun!)
Danks fo' de gloss (and I'll gots'ta go back and look fo' "4,3,2,1" on de tape). As usual, ah' paid absolutely no attenshun t'de lyrics in de beat ah' heard on "Conan"; ah' plum real likesd da damn beat (live band and backup rapers + some DJ-only bust). Wheda' one o' mo'e tricks, ah' may be fo'ced t'pick down de album. WORD! (Actually, de idea uh a beat dedicated t'his moms delivered as some fiery battle rant sounds fine fun! Right on!)
41. philistine - Nov. 10, 1998 - 12:38 PM PT
Got the mail, Marj!
I can tell just by looking that Mast Mast is a big favorite of yours. I'm sure I'll love it as well. Thanks tons.
42. marjoribanks - Nov. 10, 1998 - 12:42 PM PT
Philistine,
I was forced to send you my own beat-up copy after having lost one new version to the vagaries of the mail and four due to the depradations of my "friends" while away.
Apologies for the condition of the disk. Have you eaten some chikki yet?
43. philistine - Nov. 10, 1998 - 12:48 PM PT
They didn't even send it back this time, eh? Damn postal employees. You needn't apologize for the condition of the CD, just so's you know. I appreciate the fact that you are sending me a personal selection in more ways than one. I'll listen to it as soon as I get home. I have eaten half of a chikki; very tasty, even though my sweet tooth is rather underdeveloped.
I've had 'friends' like that as well. I know for sure that I've lost many Beatles albums, a couple of Hendrix, and Snoop's "Doggy Style" to such miscreants. Ah, to be as fine a judge of character as music...
44. marjoribanks - Nov. 10, 1998 - 4:00 PM PT
Philistine,
"More ways than one"? Are you dusting the disk for fingerprints?
(enjoy 'jhoole jhoole lal')
45. Philistine - Nov. 10, 1998 - 5:23 PM PT
Semen stains, actually.
46. Philistine - Nov. 10, 1998 - 5:31 PM PT
Actually, I just meant that the CD belonged to you personally.
Yeah, that's it. Mm-hmm. Nothing else at all. Just do yourself a favor and don't take any connecting flights through Denver.
47. phillipdavid - Nov. 10, 1998 - 9:56 PM PT
marjoribanks,
Thanks so much. My wife and I have enjoyed the selection you sent a lot. (Although, I must admit a little envy at Philistine's Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan).
I was a little trepidatious about biting into the goodies, but my wife ate one and as soon as she said "ginger" I knew they were from you!
We have a group of Sikhs (sp?) around here who sell something very similar, although just a little softer and chewier. They call them "Wha-Guru-Chews." I have been snacking on them for the last 23 years.
Your friend,
phillipdavid
48. MrSocko - Nov. 10, 1998 - 10:17 PM PT
marjoribanks:
I would be happy to send you some of my recipies for South Asian dishes, including many beloved Goan favorites. If you like, I'll scale back the spices to suit your taste.
Please indicate whether you would like a tape of Pet Shop Boys' songs included.
Your pal,
Socko
49. marjoribanks - Nov. 11, 1998 - 7:35 AM PT
PD,
The little chikki pieces contain almonds, pistachios and cashewnuts in a kind of hard nougat with strands of real saffron. There's no ginger in 'em. (BTW, they're from the center of the chikki universe, Bombay's Crawford Market)
The 'Conversations' disk is an all-time personal favorite and impossible to lay one's hands on outside India, despite it being a grand effort by Grapelli. Some of the tracks were featured in the movie 'Salaam Bombay'. I consider the main part of the album one of the most moving musical evocations of the subcontinent. A couple of them (IMO) reproduce the 'feeling' of Bombay at night amazingly. Of course, so does 'Kinna Sohna' off Philistine's selection! Maybe you two can exchange tapes.
Psocko,
Amusing, most amusing. Say, I'd be happy to get that stuff, in exchange for a glossy hardback celebrating the Grammy's of the Eighties and two recipes for kasha.
50. Philistine - Nov. 11, 1998 - 7:39 AM PT
I'm listening to "Mera Piya Ghar Aaya" as I type this, Marj. It's my third time through the CD since last night. I love it, as I predicted.
PD - Kinna Sohna is also on a compilation entitled "Big Noise" which has a lot of great mambo, bossa, gospel, jazz and cubop stuff. Unconditionally recommended, along with "Big Noise 2."
51. marjoribanks - Nov. 11, 1998 - 7:48 AM PT
Philistine,
Bally Sagoo did a good job, eh?
I think I've posted this before, but 'Kinna Sohna' completely changed the music scene for subcontinentals, it's like the original manifesto for the hundreds of acts that followed from Cornershop and Apache Indian to , well, many other NFAK collaborations. It remains one of my top five singles of all time.
52. Philistine - Nov. 11, 1998 - 7:52 AM PT
Is Bally Sagoo the producer on all this stuff? Well, he did a great job on Kinna Sohna anyhoo. I've almost bought his "Hooray for Bollywood" CD a number of times now. Unfortunately imports are just darned expensive.
53. marjoribanks - Nov. 11, 1998 - 7:56 AM PT
Philistine,
If you're talking about 'Bollywood Flashback', buy it.
The real pleasure in that album, I think, comes if you were familiar with those songs in their 'original' filmi avatars. However, it is still an excellent compilation, including a classic 'Churaliya' (which is another absolute favorite single for me).
54. Philistine - Nov. 11, 1998 - 8:02 AM PT
Thanks for the recommendation. I have never seen much in the way of SubCon cinema, so I wouldn't be at all familiar with the originals. Still, he's got a bit of track record to back it up. I couldn't get into Cornershop, though, to digress into another of your recommendations.
55. trouserPilot - Nov. 11, 1998 - 8:11 AM PT
What am I, chopped prandagilgmeshtiporaantistikka?
56. marjoribanks - Nov. 12, 1998 - 8:41 AM PT
Tp,
My supply of hard-to-get sub-con albums is getting a little short. However, I am willing to part with a luridly packaged CD titled 'The Irresistible Dr. L. Subramaniam' which is the straight Carnatic dope.
Kindly e-mail me at marjoribanks@hotmail.com with your mailing address.
57. philistine - Nov. 12, 1998 - 8:45 AM PT
Khazana
A very reasonable and reliable mailorder house, with a vast, vast selection.
58. philistine - Nov. 12, 1998 - 8:49 AM PT
I just checked. They have both "Conversations" and "The Irresistable..."
59. marjoribanks - Nov. 12, 1998 - 8:51 AM PT
Well, well, well.
I now recommend 'Conversations' to everyone with a credit-card.
Phil, I saw they only had *one* NFAK selection. What's up with that?
60. philistine - Nov. 12, 1998 - 9:08 AM PT
Damn Pakis!
61. trouserPilot - Nov. 12, 1998 - 10:23 AM PT
[confidential to milton: here's an updated list of where I've appeared most frequently in TT....
Private Life - On being gay; Who's Gay? The Celebrity Rumor thread; Arrested for having consensual sex in one's own home; Interesting Euphemisms for Homosexuals; Sexual Fantasies
Television - The Simpsons (of course); X-files; Homicide, life on the streets; Are you sick of EVERY TV series being set in New York?; EMERIL!
Music - What's in your CD player right NOW; Worst albums of all time; Best Album Titles; Best Albums of the Year (so far); Elvis Costello; Jazz and this age... (will soon be posting there)
uh, in case you need to keep track]
62. philistine - Nov. 12, 1998 - 11:21 AM PT
GO 'HORNS!
On topic, I swear.
63. philistine - Nov. 12, 1998 - 11:46 AM PT
marj -
Only one? I didn't count, but it looked more like thirty or forty to me.
64. wabbit - Nov. 13, 1998 - 11:01 AM PT
Hey Philistine! Quite a coup for UTA, yes? The NYTimes link expired, but the university museum webpage has the info for anyone who might be interested.
65. lexuh1 - Nov. 13, 1998 - 4:20 PM PT
tP, you sound awfully familiar...
66. DanDillon - Nov. 14, 1998 - 3:44 PM PT
A wonderful turn of phrase from Joseph Addison:
"For as it is the chief concern of wise men to retrench the evils of life by the reasonings of philosophy, it is the employment of fools to multiply them by the sentiments of superstition."
[NB--the parallel structure, as well as the equal number of syllables in each of the "by" phrases. There's just so much going on there that I had to share it with you. Balanced, rich, and beautiful.]
67. Jenerator - Nov. 15, 1998 - 3:19 PM PT
I had the pleasure of attending the 2nd annual rare posters auction and display last weekend. A couple of my favorite artists' works were up for sale...Mucha, Toulouse-Lautrec, etc. Unfortunately the one I *really* wanted by Mucha had an asking price of 50,000$.
68. Jenerator - Nov. 15, 1998 - 3:52 PM PT
This is a great site for Mucha or anyone interested in Art Nouveau.
69. Jenerator - Nov. 15, 1998 - 3:57 PM PT
"La Poesie",1898 was the one I wanted.
70. CoralReef - Nov. 15, 1998 - 4:18 PM PT
Tom Wolfe's new novel is out. But who wants to read a big fat novel about.....Atlanta??
71. AzureNW - Nov. 16, 1998 - 12:26 PM PT
It's still not clear to me what defines the Renaissance as a historical period, what marks the beginning of the period and its end. I understand that Leonardo da Vinci is considered to have been born near the beginning of the Renaissance, but his art works are not considered the first of the period, are they?
72. AzureNW - Nov. 16, 1998 - 12:48 PM PT
“The penis has dealings with human intelligence and sometimes displays an intelligence of its own; where a man may desire it to be stimulated, it remains obstinate and follows its own course; and sometimes it moves on its own without permission or any thought by its owner. Whether one is awake or asleep, it does what it pleases; often the man is awake and it is asleep; or the man would like it to be in action but it refuses; often it desires action and the man forbids it. That is why it seems that this creature often has a life and an intelligence separate from that of the man, and it seems that man is wrong to be ashamed of giving it a name and showing it; that which he seeks to cover and hide he ought to expose solemnly like a priest at mass. “
Leonardo da Vinci, Manuscript B
73. StanGorsian - Nov. 16, 1998 - 12:53 PM PT
like I-ve always said- Sommebody should be keeping an eye on those priests,!
74. AzureNW - Nov. 16, 1998 - 12:53 PM PT
Jenerator -
I've seen some pretty convincing evidence that Leonardo da Vinci was happily homosexual. Do you think he would have been a better man by any definition if the Christians of his time had intervened to force him to live as hetrosexual?
(I'm Christian baiting.)
75. AzureNW - Nov. 16, 1998 - 1:10 PM PT
A man *has* genitals, a woman *is* genitals. It seems to be so basic a difference in outlook between the sexes that it is obvious even in homosexuals of either gender. (Obvious to me, anyway.)
76. AzureNW - Nov. 16, 1998 - 1:19 PM PT
No, I'm not preparing to trash this thread with obscene graffiti. I'm not even encouraging anyone else to.
I'm innocent.
77. Jenerator - Nov. 16, 1998 - 1:21 PM PT
Azure,
I have no idea about what would have or could have been wrt Leonardo. I was looking at some of his art this past weekend though. Weird that you brought him up.
78. AzureNW - Nov. 16, 1998 - 1:22 PM PT
I will post a link to Leonardo's "Angel in the Flesh" sketch with the big red penis, if I can find one, however.
79. AzureNW - Nov. 16, 1998 - 1:24 PM PT
Jenerator -
If you have no clue, I'll loan you one. Leonardo da Vinci didn't need to be improved.
80. Jenerator - Nov. 16, 1998 - 1:26 PM PT
Azure,
You were lurking in here with baited breath to say that?!
81. Jenerator - Nov. 16, 1998 - 1:28 PM PT
Speaking of penises, Cllrdr---- this one is for you.
82. AzureNW - Nov. 16, 1998 - 1:35 PM PT
Is my breath *still* baited? Gak. It's two days since I had kippers and eggs for breakfast.
83. Jenerator - Nov. 16, 1998 - 1:43 PM PT
Azure,
Always a pleasure talking with you.
84. envision - Nov. 16, 1998 - 2:29 PM PT
Jen: What in the world am I seeing on your downlink.?!?!
85. cllrdr - Nov. 16, 1998 - 2:34 PM PT
Well, as Luis Bunuel once said "You've got to sin in order to repent," eh Jen?
BTW, have you read Luc Sante on Sade in that on-line magazine....what's the name?......Oh, yes I've got it -- "Slate"!
86. AzureNW - Nov. 16, 1998 - 3:06 PM PT
"The eyes are the window of the soul" is a quote I saw attributed to Leonardo da Vinci at an exhibit of his works, but I haven't been able to find any other reference to him saying it. I've heard elsewhere that the quote is from Shakespear. Does anyone here know who coined the phrase?
87. ChristinO - Nov. 17, 1998 - 10:30 AM PT
Cllrdr,
I did read the exchange. It's hard for me to discuss since I haven't read any of de Sade's work and really know almost nothing about his actual life. I tend to agree with Luc Sante simply because I feel more kinship with the man's stated opinions.
88. macnas - Nov. 17, 1998 - 11:07 AM PT
Ah well, whatever you say about De Sade, he had a sorry end. Hello Christin!!
89. ChristinO - Nov. 17, 1998 - 11:54 AM PT
Hi Macnas!
I don't know anything about his end except that it was probably welted. (g)
90. TheDiva - Nov. 18, 1998 - 8:05 AM PT
Check this out
91. philistine - Nov. 18, 1998 - 8:14 AM PT
I've been hearing about those guys for years, Diva. Very cool. I have an aunt in Berkeley, and the next time I spend some time in the bay, I'll be sure to attend the first regular church service of my life.
92. TheDiva - Nov. 18, 1998 - 8:23 AM PT
Phil
You coulda knocked me over with a feather when I found that. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. When I bookmarked it, I wasn't sure whether to put it with my jazz or my religion links.
93. webfeet - Nov. 18, 1998 - 1:36 PM PT
Never read Hemingway on an empty stomach. I was reading "Garden of Eden" on the number 6 local all the way uptown the other day, and by the time I got up to 68th street, i suffered from stabs of hunger and was salivating at his description of crushed pepper and eggs. He could make brussel sprouts sound delicious. It is a tragedy for a man who took such pleasure in living, to find living in the end, a sentence.
I'm not sure whether "Garden of Eden" should have been published posthumously. Although there are many fine examples of his clear, stark prose, it comes apart at the end, and much of the narrative is fragmented as excerpts from another story, the equivalent of a story within a story, are woven in to fill up space. Is it as kinky as everyone says it is? yes and no. The idea of role reversal is interesting but the third girl in the menage a trois, is insipid. But I can smell the aftershave and taste the oysters, even if the brazen sexuality of the characters is contrived, and their madcap beauty and impossible elegance is caricature.
94. rickc2000 - Nov. 18, 1998 - 1:50 PM PT
Diva; I drive by that church (a store front in the Haight neighborhood) fairly often but have yet to attend a service. Your link is the first time I have been "inside".
95. marjoribanks - Nov. 19, 1998 - 5:03 PM PT
The new Lauryn Hill album (as Philistine has said) is terrific. The lyrics aren't particularly profound but there are a half dozen great singles featuring Hill's more-than-adequate, occasionally stylish voice and familiar flowing sassiness.
It's my album of the year, and coming on the heels of last years album of the year (Wyclef Jean : the Carnival) I have to say:
- Thank God for the Fugees.
96. Philistine - Nov. 19, 1998 - 6:58 PM PT
Marj -
Stay away from Pras' solo album. Stay away!
97. TheDiva - Nov. 20, 1998 - 4:48 AM PT
Phil, as you requested....I'd assumed you'd seen this one already
Rick
I just find it so intriguing - it's not something I talk about much, but listening to jazz, in many ways, brings me closer to God (only another jazz fan would understand this). That's why I was so blown away by it.
98. Philistine - Nov. 20, 1998 - 5:17 AM PT
Thanks bunches! Bookmarked it.
99. Philistine - Nov. 20, 1998 - 5:19 AM PT
And even atheist jazz fans like myself find more than simple entertainment value in the music, Div. Might be fun to talk about whether 'soul' is real. But not this minute.
100. TheDiva - Nov. 20, 1998 - 5:27 AM PT
Dag, Phil, throw a bone like that to me and then say "not this minute"! You've given *me* something to chew on over the weekend. By all means, let's try to find some time next week to talk about this.