1. IrvingSnodgrass - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:41 PM PT
You've seen the movies, you've read the books, now it's your turn. What would it be like to actually be the opposite sex for a day? How would people treat you differently? How would you feel differently about yourself? How would your outlook on the world change?
Here are some questions presented by the Fray's resident expert on gender identity, LadyChaos, who will be helping out on this thread as an unofficial host:
- What external expressions of gender do you find exciting? What about inner attributes?
- Most people, when asked who they would choose to be of the opposite
sex, choose a glamorous and/or successful person. But what if you were suddenly incarnated as a member of the opposite sex who was dull and unattractive? In other words, what if you became precisely the kind of person that you avoid speaking to at social gatherings? What then?
- What visual cues or props signify one gender or the other to you?
- More fundamentally, what is the essence of gender? Do you think that we learn to cope with the bodies we're given, or it that we are given brains that match our bodies?
- Have you ever met someone whose gender was hard to determine (I don't mean transvestites, but rather persons who don't present themselves one way or the other and who are naturally androgenous)? What made you feel uncomfortable about it? What interested you about it?
- What feelings to you think might be fundamental to sexual desire in the opposite sex? Can you imagine them? Have you ever felt them?
- Feminism has clearly changed gender role expectations in our society in fundamental ways. Do you think that feminism has also changed the rituals of sexual attraction? If you could be the opposite sex, what rituals
would you want to emphasize that are no longer prevalent today?
2. thomasd - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:46 PM PT
So many questions. It'd never work, even if I was interested. I'm 6' 6" and 270 lb with broad shoulders, narrow hips, and a deep jaw with a fair amount of 5 o'clock shadow.
3. JadeGold - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:49 PM PT
So...tommydemoron...ever dream of being a man?
4. thomasd - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:51 PM PT
Why don't you get a pair grafted on, rather than spending your life trying to compensate, Moron?
5. JadeGold - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:52 PM PT
A pair of what, tommydemoron?
6. marjoribanks - Dec. 7, 1998 - 4:57 PM PT
I can't see why anyone would CHOOSE to be a woman.Childbirth, menstruation, menopause, several kinds of discrimination, relative physical weakness; need I say more?
I mean, obviously transgendered people opt to undergo various procedures to become "female" but I think that's not really a choice but rather a process of coming to terms with what is already there.
7. ChristinO - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:01 PM PT
Things I'd want to do if I was a guy for a day:
-Explore my body
-Pee standing up
-Sex: With "Rosy", but also with a woman, Get a blow job, Find out if men really do have much higher sex drives than women
-Lift heavy things
-Get in a bar fight (maybe)
-Take my car in to have it worked on
I'm sure there are other things, but that's what comes to mind first. I don't know how much I could learn about what it's like to be emotionally or intellectually male in a day so I'd pretty much have to stick to the physical stuff. What would it be like to have that kind of strength? What about that other appendage? What's the deal with "adjusting"? Would I prefer boxers or briefs? Do I dress left or right?
8. MrSocko - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:06 PM PT
Well, given that women live longer than men, suffer less from criminal violence and do not die as frequently from the 15 leading causes of death, I think there are some good reasons for thinking well of a gender swap. On the face of it, the worst thing about being a woman in my view is this menopause thing -- I'm not sure I'd want to spend half my life summoning up sexual energy on the basis of hastily gobbled hormone pills. Still, if the choice was between that and being a middleaged character who drinks mean whiskeys in the morning and describes himself as being "6' 6" and 270 lb with broad shoulders, narrow hips, and a deep jaw with a fair amount of 5 o'clock shadow," then I guess I'd take the dress, thanks.
9. ChristinO - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:06 PM PT
Marj: MULTIPLE ORGASMS
10. thomasd - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:09 PM PT
Re. 8 -
Of course, this is coming from a pencil neck geek that prefers sheep.
11. MrSocko - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:11 PM PT
TommyDeMoron:
Just because I wear mint sauce as aftershave gives you no right to make such horrible accusations.
12. ChristinO - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:12 PM PT
Non Sequitur Girl Gets Hit in the Head with a Low Flying Tangent:
Socko,
Air New Zealand has some interesting billboards up here.
"We're so friendly you'll wonder what we're on."
13. JadeGold - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:15 PM PT
Four posts into a new thread and tommydemoron is already exploring bestiality.
That has to be a Fray ™ record.
A bottle of Woolite to tommydemoron!
14. thomasd - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:18 PM PT
Re.
Moron -
Why don't you and Mr. Sicko go away and play with each other? I guarantee you'll both learn something.
15. MrSocko - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:21 PM PT
A New Zealand man goes out on a date.
16. MrSocko - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:26 PM PT
Wow! TommyDeMoron addressed Message #14 to himself. How *many* whiskeys has he gulped today?
17. IrvingSnodgrass - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:26 PM PT
My aoplogies! I realize I was unclear in the introduction above.
I should have said that we are speaking strictly of "human" genders here.
Carry on.
18. jkuzmak - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:53 PM PT
Tried it when I was a youngster. Found it to liberating. Give me a set of tits and some lipstick and let me do the shimmy shimmy shake.
19. Msivorytower - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:55 PM PT
Socko
Your link has left me speechless (almost).
There are so many things that went through my mind immediately, all low-brow, that I was shocked! Shocked!
20. Msivorytower - Dec. 7, 1998 - 5:57 PM PT
Btw, I have to admit I'm not looking forward to the "menopausal thing" myself......
21. ScottLoar - Dec. 7, 1998 - 6:21 PM PT
At age 50 I find this subject beyond my imaginings.
22. msgreer - Dec. 7, 1998 - 7:28 PM PT
For one thing, woman who are menopausal do not have to take all kinds of hormones to have sex.. All they need is a lover who is soft, rubs their backs,kisses, in other words foreplay.. that's it.. think on it.
23. ChristinO - Dec. 7, 1998 - 8:42 PM PT
My mother went through menopause on an herbal regimen that addressed all of her symptoms and married a man 11 years younger to see to her libido.
24. LadyChaos - Dec. 7, 1998 - 8:55 PM PT
For a look at how to get those herbal estrogens ChristinO refers to, take a look at transition support services. The products were originally marketed for menopausal women and for the relief of menstrual cramps, but somehow the tg community got ahold of them (wouldn't 'cha know it?).
Anyway. Seems like this thread has taken off with all the thrust of a dog's fart.
Does anyone have any questions they would like to ask? I'll do my best to answer them.
I went out to have a late dinner and hit a bar with spouse, last night. It's always interesting how many guys will hit on her when they see me as a girlfriend and not as a husband (well, maybe that's not so interesting).
25. cllrdr - Dec. 7, 1998 - 9:12 PM PT
O.K. Lady C, let's start with the basics: When did you *know*?
26. LadyChaos - Dec. 7, 1998 - 9:39 PM PT
cllrdr,
As early as I can remember. At least from age five.
27. MrSocko - Dec. 7, 1998 - 10:15 PM PT
Chaos, -- Frankly, I'm not surprised to hear of men hitting on your spouse. If the photograph I once saw (riding the NYC subway, tee hee) is anything to go by, she is a stunningly beautiful women
28. msgreer - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:55 AM PT
cllrdr...i think i do know.
29. cllrdr - Dec. 8, 1998 - 6:40 AM PT
If that's the case, LadyC, could you revisit "Ma Vie en Rose" for us. As I recall you found viewing it a rather upsetting experience. Fraysters enjoyed it, as well as many, many other critics and ordinary moviegoers. But it seemed to "hit home" to you in a particular way.
30. LadyChaos - Dec. 8, 1998 - 7:19 AM PT
Sorry I'm popping in here so infrequently...
cllrdr,
"Ma Vie" was hard to watch, for me. Have you ever watched someone behave in a way, or say something, that went so directly to your innermost being that you felt suddenly uncomfortable? Have you ever seen or heard someone express thoughts that you had previously considered to be only a part of your innermost, secret self? That's what happened to me while watching that movie. It was very troubling. The main difference between me and Ludovic, though, was that Ludovic was honestly expressing all of these feelings at such a young age whereas I had not yet achieved his/her level of complete self-honesty. And my reasons for not having reached that level were, perhaps most importantly, precisely rooted in my fear of the sort of rejection that Ludovic experiences; rejection that not only makes his own life difficult, but that also makes life hard for his family. The level of feeling was so intense that, at times, I had to force myself to recognize that it was "just a movie" (which is also, funny enough, what I often have to do when watching an intense horror film) so that the emotion wouldn't swallow me up.
31. Super80 - Dec. 8, 1998 - 7:54 AM PT
"Have you ever watched someone behave in a way, or say something, that went so directly to your innermost being that you felt suddenly uncomfortable? "
Every time I see Richard Simmons on TV.
32. Judithathome - Dec. 8, 1998 - 9:59 AM PT
I had a thought about something I'd like to experience: I work with a woman who is very much a *mans* woman...she twinkles and shines when men are around and relates to them in such a girlish way, almost disgustingly flirty. She is hard to work with because she makes men her priority and is almost rude to women. I'd like to see how a day working with her would go if I could be the object of her slavish attention rather than as some flunky she merely tolerates.
33. CuriousPluck - Dec. 8, 1998 - 10:33 AM PT
Re: 22
Ahem, "...soft"? I think not. Not as a menopausal woman on hormone control. Not as a woman in menopause.
34. marshame - Dec. 8, 1998 - 10:42 AM PT
I for one would hang out in the executive men's room to (finally!) be a party to all those conferences I presently am excluded from.
35. ChristiPeters - Dec. 8, 1998 - 12:31 PM PT
I'll have to admit, that my immediate reaction to this question surprised me. My spontaneous, no thought involved reaction, was:
Be a man? EEeeeeeuuuuuuuwwwwwwwww! Yuck!
Now, I've just got to figure out why. I thought I was more open than that.
As far as the menopause aspect of being a woman, believe it or not, there really ARE women who experience very little side effects and to whom menopause simply means 1.no more having to worry about getting pregnant and 2.saving money on sanitary supplies. Why this particular aspect of a normal woman's biological life is vested with so much baggage is something I really don't understand. The trend for the females in my family is early, uncomplicated menopause and I'll confess, I am quite looking forward to it.
I found pregnancy to be a lovely experience, but then I had little morning sickness and my darling daughter kicked just enough to thrill and not enough to hurt. (I have a friend whose son actually broke her bottom right rib, kicking, but for goodness sakes a 4'6" woman should NOT bear the babies of a 6'4" man!)
The only aspect of being female which I have found unpleasant is strictly societal, not biological. That is the restrictions I experienced as a girl in the 50s - 60s, and the discrimination in education, employment, and pay that I have experienced.
(still - I have NO idea *why* my initial reaction to the thought of spending a day as a man was to be grossed out!!! I'll have to do some soul searching. maybe I'm just around too many fifth grade girls?)
36. DanDillon - Dec. 8, 1998 - 12:32 PM PT
If, by some stroke of sheer luck, I were to suddenly turn into a woman, I would clean the house and cook dinner.
37. thomasd - Dec. 8, 1998 - 12:34 PM PT
Re. 36 -
I do that, and I'm not a woman.
38. DanDillon - Dec. 8, 1998 - 12:46 PM PT
Well, la-te-da!
39. bubbaette - Dec. 8, 1998 - 12:47 PM PT
If I were suddenly to turn into a man, I'd be grouchy and competitive. And I'd probably have a napoleon complex to boot.
40. bubbaette - Dec. 8, 1998 - 12:50 PM PT
to offset those unpleasant traits, I would make half again as much money as I currently make. Who knows, I might even learn to care about sports and thus be better at making smalltalk.
Finally, if I were to turn into a man, my husband would be dumbfounded.
41. thomasd - Dec. 8, 1998 - 12:53 PM PT
Re. 38 -
Exactly. Housework's easy to manage & doesn't take much time, truth be told.
42. DanDillon - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:02 PM PT
Thanks, that bit of domestic wisdom will really get me through when I end up turning into a woman.
43. marshame - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:04 PM PT
If I was a man, I'd come home from work, plop down on the sofa, take control of the remote, and not do another damned thing all night. Other than eat the dinner that someone else prepared and cleaned up after. I would let it be known that it is my "right" to control the remote, and I would never let it stay on any one channel for more than 30 seconds.
I would insist on having a gargantuan recliner right smack in the middle of the room, and I would have permanently installed a foot bath/massager next to me, so that if I couldn't persuade the little woman to give me a foot massage, I could do it myself in the comfort of my own recliner.
I would nod and smile at the kids, as the wife fed them, bathed them, got them ready for bed, read to them and tucked them in. I would have every intention of going in and kissing them goodnight.
I would snore unabashedly.
I would remind my wife to pick up the dry cleaning, to make me something to take to the office pot-luck tomorrow (sorry I forget to mention it earlier) and to please take my car tomorrow and get the oil changed on her lunch break.
I would be sure that noone read the paper til I have seen it first.
In other words, I'd a real pig and see what I've been missing.
44. ChristiPeters - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:11 PM PT
marshame, dear, if you have a pig like that in your life - kick him out the door!
well, ok, if you have some affection for him, do some serious behavior modification.
but, of course! you *don't* have a pig like that in your life - I know you are too smart for that &:o)
45. DanDillon - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:23 PM PT
marshame,
Nice revival of the personal pronoun "noone." I haven't seen that since the early 15th century.
46. ChristinO - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:25 PM PT
Things I would NOT like about being a man:
Unexpected and embarrassing erections
Unexpected and messy surprises in the middle of the night
The pressure of having to "perform"
Being expected to kill the big bugs in the kitchen
Being expected to find out "What was that?" when odd sounds happen in the middle of the night
Being derided for enjoying opera, ballet, art or baking
Being expected to "take it on the chin like a man" when I'm hurt physically or emotionally
Getting kicked in the groin
Prostate exams
Back hair
47. toonces - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:30 PM PT
I'm not a male, but I used to play one on TV.
48. DanDillon - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:32 PM PT
Chris,
I dunno, from time to time, a prostate exam ain't so bad....
49. marshame - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:34 PM PT
Dan, that's shorthand for "no one at noon".
50. ChristinO - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:34 PM PT
Dan,
I'm not even going there, you goof.
btw Congratulations! I haven't run into you lately but saw your good news. (Is she aware of your feelings toward your GP?)
51. marshame - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:39 PM PT
An old lady is sitting on her rocker, petting her beautiful persian cat. She thinks back wistfully about her younger days, when her husband was alive. For a moment she remembers making love to him. She softly sighs.
Suddenly, a genie appears and tells her she has just rocked the millioneth time in her old rocker, and this entitles her to have any wish fulfulled.
The old lady is struck with the multitude of possibilities. But she realizes she has been stroking her beautiful cat, so she impetuously tells the genie: make this cat into a man!
Suddenly, the cat is transformed into a beautiful young man. He has thick wavy hair, a slender but muscular physique, and a beautiful face. She stares at him agog, as he allows her to continue stroking his back.
He whispers softly, "Now aren't you sorry you had me fixed?"
52. DanDillon - Dec. 8, 1998 - 1:39 PM PT
Chris,
Thanks. (I assume my GP is my Gender Preference?)
marshame,
It's shorthand for *something*, that's for damn sure.
53. Jenerator - Dec. 8, 1998 - 2:40 PM PT
Marshame,
Loved the joke.
If I were a man for a day, I'd test my physical strength. For once I'd like to be able to do more than 10 push ups, bench more than 80 pounds, and squat over 100 pounds.
I'd pig out on everything that I love to eat to see what it's like to have a male metabolism.
I'd go out with some frinds to see what it's like through a man's eyes.
Other than that, I can't think of doing anything I can't do now (except for a few personal things which aren't a major priority in my being a man for a day).
54. thomasd - Dec. 8, 1998 - 2:48 PM PT
Re. 43 -
Remember what they say about creating unnecessary stress:)
55. Jenerator - Dec. 8, 1998 - 2:50 PM PT
ThomasD,
From your actual physical description, you sound like a babe.
56. marshame - Dec. 8, 1998 - 2:52 PM PT
ThomasD
Are you referring to everyman's idea of the cure?
57. envision - Dec. 8, 1998 - 4:55 PM PT
I'm confused. Is LadyChaos a man or a woman? I thought she was living with her parents while going to law school.
58. ChristinO - Dec. 8, 1998 - 5:06 PM PT
Dan,
Uh, no, GP was for General Practitioner. Although I suppose I should have said Proctologist, that's the guy with the rubber glove, right?
Oh, lord. And I said I wasn't going there.
sheesh.
59. ChristinO - Dec. 8, 1998 - 5:07 PM PT
Envision,
LadyC is a transgendered woman going to law school. She does not live with her parents.
60. envision - Dec. 8, 1998 - 5:19 PM PT
Thanks. I guess I got the parent connection from the crisis last month that got everyone so upset.
I don't know much about this subject other than what I saw in "Tootsie." Dustin was wonderful but Jessica won the Oscar.
61. LadyChaos - Dec. 8, 1998 - 8:36 PM PT
Does anybody have any thoughts on what they think the opposite sex takes for granted about being the opposite sex? More specifically, do you think that men take being men for granted and that women take being women for granted? This is something that interests me personally, as I can never get over how many women out there don't seem to really enjoy being women at all. I wonder what they would do differently if they suddenly couldn't take being feminine for granted, anymore.
62. resonance - Dec. 8, 1998 - 8:58 PM PT
Crisis? I missed it, whatever it was. Hope everything's all right, LC.
What would I do if I were a woman for a day. Gee. I would have lesbian sex, to see if I were multiorgasmic. I would try to avoid either laughing at, or hitting, guys who flirted with me. I would live free of the need for logic and I would scare everyone by pretending to be experiencing PMS. I would write a short paper, to see if feminine writing really is any different from masculine writing (laugh). I would spend at least one hour publicly thanking every man I met for being given the right to vote. I would vaguely wonder what an off-tackle run is. I would beat Gloria Steinem with a handbag for daring to speak for me. I would write the phone numbers of my friends in every ladies restroom I could find. I would finally understand the allure of Tupperware. I would see the need to have separate names for every conceivable shade of color. I would probably have to buy shoes and clothing. I would have some man explain three-dimensional thinking to me. I wouldn't pay for lunch or dinner. I'd flutter my eyelashes whenever anyone mentioned Antonio Banderas or George Clooney. I would remain thankfully clueless that I was making 30% less money at my job, because I wouldn't understand math. I would casually appraise my own bustline in a mirror without feeling vaguely guilty or worrying that someone would notice. I would whine that I had put on weight. I'd get lost. So many things to do.
63. CoralReef - Dec. 8, 1998 - 9:03 PM PT
LOL!
64. LadyChaos - Dec. 8, 1998 - 9:05 PM PT
res,
You're cruisin' for a serious bitch slappin', hon.
65. resonance - Dec. 8, 1998 - 9:11 PM PT
This is something that I've wanted a serious explanation for. For a long, long, time. What, exactly, differentiates a 'bitch-slap' from a 'pimp-slap' or an ordinary 'slap'?
66. cigarlaw - Dec. 8, 1998 - 9:13 PM PT
too late to think about it. how many decent male lovers would even consider an overweight, cigar-smoking, 6 foot tall woman with a greying beard who drools?
67. LadyChaos - Dec. 8, 1998 - 9:55 PM PT
res,
Bitch-slaps have long, sharp nails.
68. ycmeehan - Dec. 9, 1998 - 2:15 AM PT
LadyChaos,
Never occurred to me that the world I live in now is one in which being feminine is still taken for granted. I thought it went out along with the bitches and the long sharp nails. Those women out there who don't seem to enjoy being feminine at all and sadly, you are right, there are many, are being eliminated out of the gene pool. Not soon enough, however, considering Res and his perception of women..
69. resonance - Dec. 9, 1998 - 2:52 AM PT
What's that? I *like* feminists. They have better orgasms. And they pay for dinner.(laughing)
70. stostosto - Dec. 9, 1998 - 2:59 AM PT
Resonance
I've noticed you around...
71. stostosto - Dec. 9, 1998 - 3:00 AM PT
...I find you very attractive...
72. stostosto - Dec. 9, 1998 - 3:00 AM PT
...um....
73. stostosto - Dec. 9, 1998 - 3:01 AM PT
Would you go to bed with me?
74. resonance - Dec. 9, 1998 - 3:02 AM PT
Are you a feminist?
75. resonance - Dec. 9, 1998 - 3:03 AM PT
I mean, there's just no point otherwise.
76. resonance - Dec. 9, 1998 - 3:06 AM PT
See? I didn't laugh, and I didn't punch.
77. ycmeehan - Dec. 9, 1998 - 3:14 AM PT
LadyChoas,
You do not seriously expect such women to be able to cope with anything now, do you?
78. LadyChaos - Dec. 9, 1998 - 8:11 AM PT
ycmeehan,
I'm not sure that I understand your point. Some of the most powerful women I know are very feminine, very sexy, and I think consciously so. An example that comes immediately to mind is our local State Attorney. I sometimes wonder, though, if most women in this country, feeling the pressures from both right and left (not to mention the neanderthal attitudes of many males), don't somehow learn to hate being women.
79. davidtudor - Dec. 9, 1998 - 8:46 AM PT
My daughter, who is eight, fits into the classic "tomboy" mode. She rejects all forms of "feminine" dress (not uncommon amongst her peers) and, by choice, plays almost exclusively with boys in what I will characterize as action-oriented activities. And, sports, of course. Where she tends to be better than most of the boys, which makes her a popular choice for those activities where they take sides.
As far as we know, none of her buddies have ever commented upon her being "different" by being a girl. Never any evidence of her being rejected. And, no comments whatsoever from our daughter about wanting to be a boy.
We will wait and see how all of this develops over the next three or four years.
80. msivorytower - Dec. 9, 1998 - 8:54 AM PT
LadyC
You raise an interesting issue. Do I hate being a woman? No, I can say that unequivocally. There are some things I hate about being a woman, that I was socialized with some fears that I spend a lot of time trying to get around, but I don't hate *being* a woman.
Some female fears that I'm always having to deal with even when proceeding forward in the action;
1) being alone in many different contexts
-at night
-in a theater
-in a restaurant
-in a dangerous part of town
2) killing things
-bugs (particularly nasty ones)
-rats
-snakes
3) home and car repairs
-flat tires
-being stranded with car trouble
-undertaking big home projects
-major yard maintainance (cutting large trees, etc)
I resent the mental energy I expend before undertaking these things. I often have to *talk* myself into doing some of them, and others, I just have to deal with an initial sense of dread before proceeding. In any case, it gets exhausting after a while.
81. bubbaette - Dec. 9, 1998 - 9:31 AM PT
Assumptions about women that are a pain-in-the-ass to deal with on a regular basis.
1. In instances of a conflict between a woman and a man, it is assumed that the woman will concede to make the conflict go away.
2. A woman would prefer not to drive -- not even her own car -- if there is a man in the company.
3. That I am weak or frail.
4. That I have no mechanical ability and couldn't figure my way out of a paper bag using my own resources.
82. MizPhys - Dec. 9, 1998 - 9:42 AM PT
I'd like to add to bubbaette's list of annoying assumptions:
A woman out alone is looking to be picked up.
The mother has the primary parental responsibility in a 2-parent family.
A married woman works because she enjoys it, not out of necessity.
If I took more time, I could come up with LOTS more!
83. bubbaette - Dec. 9, 1998 - 9:45 AM PT
Phys
How about that women are fixated on their hair and makeup?
Or that at some kind of function the women and men will split up and carry on different conversations in different rooms.
That women enjoy being whistled at or having bufoons making comments on their appearance.
84. MizPhys - Dec. 9, 1998 - 9:48 AM PT
That a woman should always *SMILE*!
That a woman isn't capable of repairing anything.
85. bubbaette - Dec. 9, 1998 - 9:50 AM PT
Miz Phys
But you're so much PRETTIER when you smile!
86. msivorytower - Dec. 9, 1998 - 9:51 AM PT
Okay you two, what assumptions do you make about men?
Btw, I don't disagree that some assumptions made about women are annoying, I just think we women make some pretty lame assumptions about men, too.
87. Adrianne - Dec. 9, 1998 - 9:53 AM PT
"Okay you two, what assumptions do you make about men?"
That they have a penis.
88. msivorytower - Dec. 9, 1998 - 9:54 AM PT
Ba da boom!
89. MizPhys - Dec. 9, 1998 - 9:57 AM PT
Any assumptions that I make about men must be valid!
Just kidding--I'm sure that I make some, but I hope to god that they're not as demeaning as Resonance's are about women.
90. msivorytower - Dec. 9, 1998 - 10:01 AM PT
I don't know MizPhys
I think you should go back and read Marshames recent posts before dumping on Res. They were equally stereotypical.
91. bubbaette - Dec. 9, 1998 - 10:04 AM PT
1. That they are less emotional -- that slights don't get under their skin.
2. That they will botch most tasks requiring a light touch.
3. That they are less nurturing than women.
4. That a little flattery can get me out of any scrape.
92. marshame - Dec. 9, 1998 - 10:14 AM PT
Assumptions I make about men:
1. They understand automobile engines
2. They know and enjoy plumbing and carpentry
3. They are never afraid; they will always go out and check what
that loud noise was
4. They have better tools than me
5. They never read the directions and they can STILL figure out how
to install that ceiling fan.
6. They only cry when someone dies.
7. They are naturally attracted to "bang-bang-shoot-'em-up" movies,
and are generally averse to "chick flicks" i.e. movies with
dialogue.
93. ScotusAntonovich - Dec. 9, 1998 - 11:26 AM PT
Um.
Marsha:
"Chick flicks" are more than merely having dialogue. Usually, I classify one as obviously grabbing for some emotion (tears, most of the time) and making the viewer feel like shit and wore out by the time the lights come up.
(Hm, long sentence.)
94. marshame - Dec. 9, 1998 - 11:29 AM PT
Oh, that too! It's just that there are no car crashes, explosions, or mass murders that bring on the tears, rather it's the poignant dialogue. Which most men, in my glossy assumptions about them, do not enjoy.
95. pseudoerasmus - Dec. 9, 1998 - 11:31 AM PT
Marshame: How many hours of the day do you spend killing snakes?
96. ScotusAntonovich - Dec. 9, 1998 - 11:34 AM PT
Marsha:
I think that's directly proportional to the amount of sex in the film.
97. resonance - Dec. 9, 1998 - 12:43 PM PT
Oh, jesus. It's a joke, people. You know, humor. A ha-ha. A funny. If you don't appreciate it, that's well within your rights, but I should have thought it obvious that I was just engaged in goat-getting. Slate needs a 'sarcasm' flag.
98. resonance - Dec. 9, 1998 - 12:44 PM PT
Oh, jesus. It's a joke, people. You know, humor. A ha-ha. A funny. If you don't appreciate it, that's well within your rights, but I should have thought it obvious that I was just engaged in goat-getting. I don't make these demeaning assumptions about women -- the fact that I don't is the very reason I can say them with a smile. Slate needs a 'sarcasm' flag.
99. jonesatlaw - Dec. 9, 1998 - 12:47 PM PT
I've thought about being a woman for a day, and the thought is not pretty. First, I'm about 40, 6'4", carry about 20 extra pounds, almost exclusively in a middle aged spread. I assume that as a woman, I might be a little shorter, but probably not much, and would have breasts that I could tuck into the belt on a shirt dress. I'd have more cottage cheese in my thighs than a milkman's truck. Since I'm in the legal profession and not old enough to be any of the judge's mothers, I'd probably not get much respect at work. Since I can be opinionated and sometimes aggressive, I have to prepare to be called a bitch or a battle-axe. I'd get to make about 30% less than I already do if I worked for someone else. Judges wouldn't want to give me the appointments in criminal cases involving scary defendants, and would hesitate to appoint me in rape cases.
I'd be too young to wear purple and do whatever the hell I want, and too old to be coy and flirtatious. If I tried to show Bill Clinton my thong underwear, he'd tell me the garters on my supp-house had ridden up a bit. Enough kvetching-
The good part would be that I would talk to my friends about their dreams, fears and what's important to them without being drunk, or someone dying. I would be able to see the importance of accessories, and know what someone means by a "sweetheart neckline" or an "empire waist." I'd go out and powder my nose with the girls and find out what the hell you've been talking about all these years. If I was really happy or sad or touched by something I could cry in public without being terribly self-conscious. I would hug my friends when I saw them without being drunk, having someone die, or being from the mediteranian. I could have flowers in my office without a death being involved or major illness. Someone might give me flowers. I could insist that someone else remember my anniversary.
100. KurtMondaugen - Dec. 9, 1998 - 12:47 PM PT
gosh, according to marshame's list (and the fact that I despise professional sports), I must be a woman. Strange...I still don't understand Astor Piazzola.